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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Damn, that sux.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Woodrow Mulligan wrote:
Well, if this isn't the biggest drag of the year I don't know what is!!
I sent all those nice shots that DrM made up with Alan and Pat Hitchcock from their AHP episodes, a nice letter that should have been out of the ordinary and they came back yesterday----SECRETARIAL SIGNED!!!! ARGH!!!
I then checked out Star Tiger and the current crop shown on there are ALL secretarials and people are actually labeling them "authentic". DAMN! I am pondering what to do: get another batch made up and tell whoever is signing to send them back if she isn't signing or have her sign, send a letter asking if she will sign if I send some new ones back or what?
Such a crock when one spends money on these photos and they have someone else sign them!! DAMN! :x
This just never has happened to me! It's crazy.....



Gary, please post an example of what you got back and believe to be "secretarial".
I am no longer a member of ST, so I can't access that, but I can go from my own shots I had Pat Hitchcock sign a couple years ago.
From what I remember, her writing was a bit shaky, which makes sense.

As far as sending her again? I wouldn't waste my time. If you sent a nice letter (which sounds like you did), then more than likely she is avoiding signing for some reason. Perhaps declining health, volume of mail, or whatever.
Now- here is the kicker, if she did in fact sign, sending her again like that and possibly trying to see if it is fake, might piss her off enough to get her to stop signing, if it was indeed her that signed.

My personal code has been to not even mess with them if they are suspected of fakes or secretarials. Which is one reason I never sent to Joseph Wiseman.
I always wondered about Robert Redford, but many things over the years led me to believe that his are real.
On that note- At first I doubted Robert Duvall as well too......... But going on my own little experiences with him, I would wager everything I have that he is legitimately signing his own mail. A couple of small clues gave it away in my mind.

If you are looking for something ala' Pat Hitchcock, and you don't have anything, I have 2 shots I believe, and will swap you one of them, for something. I think my shots are from "Psycho", but I am not 100%. I have to check.

Speaking of that, I think you are going to need a Brinks truck to deliver all of the stuff that you have accumulated there for me. :dance:
Post an example of your Hitch shots, and we can go from there.
Also, what about Frontiere? I forgot if you had gotten those back.



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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:34 am 
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Well, I know it to be fake as I got her only a few years ago and SHE sent the 5X7 color photo to me and signed it--shaky sig and all. Nothing on Frontiere YET! Crossing fingers....all this talk has spurred on thoughts of others I have not gotten back one being Richard Matheson and I sent him one that Idelson had signed and this was way before he died.....I will scan for you in a moment though just to appease you, but I know, just like I knew that Michael Constantine one was a fake and remember I sent another one back and said the other one i got was fake and to please sign or just return unsigned?! He then sent a note and said he doesn't sign anymore because of Ebay! Remember....that is what makes me think to retry Hitchcock but I may send a letter out first before I spend another $30 on all the photos! Damn! I had one for you and Dan and me and several different shots too! AND she kept one of the collages.....argh! I don't know what the deal is anymore, well I do know.....but it is just sickening to send stuff and then have others sign them.....anyway...

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:48 am 
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Reading over this thread again, and looking back at over a couple hundred of signed shots that I amassed over a 3-4 year period,(which are nicely protected in binders) has made me want to rekindle the TTM fires yet again.


I look to Woodrow or DrM for ideas, on the next subject.
I tinkered with the idea of Night Gallery, but I am not 100% sold on that one.
If I decide to go ahead, there should be an absolute TON of people to send concerning that, so it IS an obvious choice.

One good thing, is I have plenty of envelopes and mailers still here just waiting to be used. :dance: Now stamps on the other hand.......................

Anything new on the TTM horizon for you Woodrow?

Ugh, no action in this thread in 6 months. :(

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:55 am 
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I'm still doing NG myself. Mainly at people I run into at the shows. Speaking of which, Lana Wood - "You Can't Get Help Like that Anymore" - will be at the upcoming show. I picked up Cloris Leachman for my TZ and NG last show. Also Joe Campenella.

Question - either of you 2 have a Christine White autograph?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:39 pm 
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DrMoreau wrote:
Question - either of you 2 have a Christine White autograph?



I am fairly certain that Woodrow does, but I do NOT. In fact, he MAY* have one for me, in his pile of stuff destined for my collection.
Hmmm, I see that AHP staple Robert Horton is going to be there at the next show.

Woodrow should have in his possession an AHP mini, that I mailed to him some time ago.
(my memory could be a little off)
If he has ever sent it out in any direction, which I believe he intended to include it in a Pat Hitchcock mailing for me, I don't know.
But - speak up now Woodrow if you have it, or if it is out in TTM land somewhere.
(Or did I ever send it to you in the first place LOL)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:55 pm 
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NO I don't have Christine White--Nightmare at 20,000 Feet lady-I have never seen an address for her!! Will she be at next show too? She has not done anything since Magnum Force and always thought she was never to be found, so that is cool if she is at the next show! She also did The Prime Mover--a couple of nice classic TZ's if you ask me!

THE AHP mini---the Pat Hitchcock fake f*&*d that one up! Have to restart or abandon ship....

Joe Campenella is one I don't have either--how did he look DrM? He hasn't looked well to me in years! So skinny!

ANd TZ DZ nothing new on the horizon for me.....I just need to get off my bottom and do something! I have a ton of stuff I can send out, but it gets so frustrating when I send out stuff like Evelyn Rudie --3 times!!! Matheson we need to get a good address on, not sure which one I sent to! argh... I get so tired losing stuff esp the already signed ones!

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:25 pm 
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No - unfortunately she won't be at the show and it looks like Roy "The Invaders" Thinnes bowed out.

Supposedly she lives in DC - TZ DC's neighborhood - or near enough.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:45 am 
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Woodrow Mulligan wrote:

THE AHP mini---the Pat Hitchcock fake f*&*d that one up! Have to restart or abandon ship....



Hmm........ woodrow, can you get your hands on some lighter fluid???
I have only done it once, but normally if its just an "average Sharpie sig", you can remove it.

Truth be known, DrM had to do it on my OL Mini, to take off a mistaken signature by Richard Erdman. Now the last time I saw the OL mini, it was essentially gone from that, so maybe DrM (whose talents are either ridiculously vast, or ridiculously sick, I haven't figured which :D ) could be of more assistance. Hell, I would have figured you knew that maneuver by now.
On that note, you might ask DrM if he still has that AHP mini file he made for me, as it has been long gone from my computer, as has everything else TTM related.
I DO* know, it turned out smooth as f@%king silk when I printed it up, even moreso than the OL mini.

Perhape we can dig up Christine White on zaba somewhere. Let me know and I will see what I can get if you are interested.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:02 pm 
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Yeah Christine WHite would be a cool one to get---I don't think she is one that would be bombarded with requests either or maybe she is?
I need to find that AHP mini and see if that can be done, no I have never had to do that EVER!!

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:33 pm 
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TZ DZ Fan thought I may jumpstart this collecting thread by taking it in a slightly different direction. The intent is to display my most prized/interesting comic books. My big collection is mostly Silver Age and Bronze Age comic books, with also a lot of Modern (eighties on) and mostly Marvel Comics. With the advent of CGC and other professional grading services, the concept of getting a prized comic book signed by a creator (writer or artist) has also gained prominence in the 21st century.

At first, I didn't much care for the concept; I thought, if you have a nice book, wouldn't a signature spoil it? But, I suppose one has to adjust a mindset. In any case, I first picked a comic book I have to get signed which wasn't in great shape - but it was a key book of the Silver Age: the first appearance of Thor in Journey Into Mystery #83, from 1962. I was made aware of a signing coming up back in October, with the legendary Stan Lee. It would cost me $125 plus shipping. That's a lot... but a signature could add a lot more to the value of an old book.

I thought my copy of JiM #83 would rate a Good+ or a 2.5, maybe a 3.0, but was pleasantly surprised that it got a 4.0 (Very Good). When it's these old books, a single rating point can make a big difference in worth; and now it's got Lee's signature on it:
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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:26 pm 
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Very nice Kirk!

Several years ago, I was a member of a board named Star Archive, which later became StarTiger.
This was essentially a huge community of autograph collectors, and it had a simply unbelievably huge base of addresses where you could write "celebrities" of all types. Literally hundreds of thousands of people.

From what I could remember about Stan Lee which isn't much, is he was very popular among collectors, for various reasons.
One of the main ones, was I don't believe he signed TTM* (or through the mail). If he did, it may have been hit or miss, or sporadic at best.

I do* remember that he occaisionally did a big signing, and when he did that, it was very popular, and he could make a ton of $$. (not as much as some tougher to get actors, but still a good lick)
Your price of $125 sounds about what I was guessing.

As someone that is more familiar with the autograph side of collecting, I can tell you that people view it different ways. It does take some getting used to.

When condition is involved in the value, an autograph is a weird oddity. But most items tend to go up in value anyway, especially if its a signature that is deemed important to the item itself.

On that note- Once when I was siphoning through some EBAY TZ items, I found a comic from years ago.
It was an old Twilight Zone Stories comic. One of the ones that had a little headshot in the corner of Rod Serling himself.
Something stuck out to me though, as I looked it over.......IT WAS SIGNED BY ROD SERLING HIMSELF. From what I can vaguely remember, it was going fairly cheap also, I am pretty certain it was less than $30 if I remember correctly. The condition was decent too. (While I am not too keen on the judging of a comic books condition or grade, I can say it looked to be in better shape than the one you pictured above)
Thats not a slight, as I am sure yours is much tougher to find, and more valuable to boot.

One thing that turned me off about the TZ comic, was the signature looked good, but not quite as good as a typical Serling signature. It did have some of the tell-tale trademarks in how he signed, but it looked a bit "rushed".
Was it actually signed by him? Hard to say, but I am betting it was. Logic should come into play here...... If you were going to forge a Serling signature, one would do it on something that would tend to be more valuable, as I don't think those TZ comics were terribly expensive, from memory.
Example- maybe a written contract, or 8x10 etc. etc. Those type items tend to go for much more.

This is one of the difficulties about collecting autographs. If you didn't see it signed in person, there is always a bit of a doubt.

Some things though, you can bet your ass safely, that the signature is 100% real. I have a few items like that, and one in particular is a Rod Serling signed check.
On that note- I bought it for around $125, including shipping. That was a steal in a sense, as you routinely see similar Serling checks on EBAY for $249-$299 and up.
Other unique items I have off the top of my head are, an old autograph book page signed by Ernest Truex. (this is also signed by an obscure actor on the reverse, as these items often were)
I also have a credit card slip signed by Gig Young, that I got damn cheap too. Like $6 or so. LOL ;)
I have a ton of crap like that around here, and several hundred 8x10's.



I would be curious as to what your comic is worth Kirk. The going price for a near mint one, if there is such a thing, and also what yours would be worth at the above condition.
I am betting a comic just like that is extremely rare in a "near mint" condition.
Hell, its probably damn rare enough as it is.............. :dance:

Quick note - One day you will be glad you got Stan Lee to sign that book. I am of the opinion it adds to the value quite a bit. As time goes on, you will appreciate it more.
Fellow board founder DrMoreau wasn't into the autograph hobby either, but in time he started getting some of his own things signed. His posters and collages, etc. etc.
I am sure he can attest, that later on, he appreciated those items that he created even more after getting them signed.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Kaptain Kirk wrote:
TZ DZ Fan thought I may jumpstart this collecting thread by taking it in a slightly different direction. The intent is to display my most prized/interesting comic books. My big collection is mostly Silver Age and Bronze Age comic books, with also a lot of Modern (eighties on) and mostly Marvel Comics. With the advent of CGC and other professional grading services, the concept of getting a prized comic book signed by a creator (writer or artist) has also gained prominence in the 21st century.

At first, I didn't much care for the concept; I thought, if you have a nice book, wouldn't a signature spoil it? But, I suppose one has to adjust a mindset. In any case, I first picked a comic book I have to get signed which wasn't in great shape - but it was a key book of the Silver Age: the first appearance of Thor in Journey Into Mystery #83, from 1962. I was made aware of a signing coming up back in October, with the legendary Stan Lee. It would cost me $125 plus shipping. That's a lot... but a signature could add a lot more to the value of an old book.

I thought my copy of JiM #83 would rate a Good+ or a 2.5, maybe a 3.0, but was pleasantly surprised that it got a 4.0 (Very Good). When it's these old books, a single rating point can make a big difference in worth; and now it's got Lee's signature on it:
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Sweet Kaptain! I am not a comics collector and its a little too late in life to start now, but I really enjoying seeing this type of stuff. Thanks for sharing!

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Stan Lee...
TZ DZ Fan wrote:
I do* remember that he occaisionally did a big signing, and when he did that, it was very popular, and he could make a ton of $$. (not as much as some tougher to get actors, but still a good lick)
Your price of $125 sounds about what I was guessing.

I found out just a couple of weeks ago that Stan the Man's signature is pretty expensive when compared to famous comic book artists like Neal Adams or Steranko; the cost for those is less than half of Lee's.

TZ DZ Fan wrote:
One thing that turned me off about the TZ comic, was the signature looked good, but not quite as good as a typical Serling signature. It did have some of the tell-tale trademarks in how he signed, but it looked a bit "rushed".
Was it actually signed by him? Hard to say, but I am betting it was. Logic should come into play here...... If you were going to forge a Serling signature, one would do it on something that would tend to be more valuable, as I don't think those TZ comics were terribly expensive, from memory.
Example- maybe a written contract, or 8x10 etc. etc. Those type items tend to go for much more.

This is one of the difficulties about collecting autographs. If you didn't see it signed in person, there is always a bit of a doubt.

Some things though, you can bet your ass safely, that the signature is 100% real.

You touch on a very important aspect of the signing process which CGC stresses and why I think they've been pretty successful at this the past decade. CGC emphasizes how their signings are witnessed, are official, are certified etc etc. and then there is no doubt; as you say, there should be no question that that Thor comic book above is actually signed by Stan Lee. I guess there were signings like this before CGC and before the 21st century but there is always that nagging question with those, I would think.

In a similar vein, I found out the hard way that some books I owned were NOT the great books I thought they were. I'd purchased them many years ago and got a bad reality check after I sent them to CGC. That is the dark side of this collecting and I'll present some examples in future posts... the horror, the horror... :twisted:

TZ DZ Fan wrote:
I would be curious as to what your comic is worth Kirk. The going price for a near mint one, if there is such a thing, and also what yours would be worth at the above condition.
I am betting a comic just like that is extremely rare in a "near mint" condition.
Hell, its probably damn rare enough as it is.............. :dance:

OK... a NM of JiM #83 would fetch about $50 Grand; that's a 9.4 technically - only a few exist in that grade. There is one known 9.6 (NM+); that's probably a hundred grand or more.

A VG JiM #83 or a 4.0 is listed at $1700 in the Overstreet Price Guide. Slabbed and graded by CGC like mine is may bring in a few more hundred dollars. With a signature by Stan Lee himself... here's where it gets tricky. I only got involved in getting such a signature a few months ago, so I don't have a lot of experience in that area. Does it add a grand? Does it double the asking price..? It boils down to how much a potential buyer wants it. Full disclosure: I was offered $2700 for it a couple of months ago on E-Bay and declined it. Was the offer serious? Will never know now...

TZ DZ Fan wrote:
Quick note - One day you will be glad you got Stan Lee to sign that book. I am of the opinion it adds to the value quite a bit. As time goes on, you will appreciate it more.
TZ DZ fan

Oh, I'm glad I did it - and I'm loathe to part with it even though it may mean a great sale for me. It's like wanting to hold to something as long as possible even though the pragmatic thing to do is sell it while the going is good.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:26 am 
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Yeah, nearly all of those organized signings with big name people are legit. Stan Lee definitely!

The reason - those companies have far too much to lose, when compared to future gains.
All it would take is even ONE legitimate sounding claim that something was forged, and that company could stand to lose thousands upon thousands in future profits.

Now, I would tend to stay away from a "Mom and Pop" type organization that had a signing, (as far as taking mail-in orders) but thats another animal altogether.

I believe the main thing with Stan Lee, is he has marketed himself well, not to mention being involved with some high profile comics/projects.
Simply put, he has been smart.

Now when he goes to one of these signings, he can make a ton.
(Actually, at this point, Stan Lee probably doesn't just "up and go" to a signing, all he has to do is call someone, and they set up the event for him, at his convenience most likely) He most likely has kept those appearances to a minimum, and really big events, such as the San Diego Comic Con, and similar big, rare events.

When it comes to making a ton, this is precisely what happened with one Tony Curtis before he passed.
The topic of whether or not he signed legit TTM has been debated thousands of times, and no one could really say so conclusively. Most thought he had a secretary sign for him, for the untold thousands of requests over the years.

But where he had the last laugh, is he never did any of those signings, until one bright day a couple years ago out in California.
That is one that DrMoreau attended. (side note- he had some stuff signed there for me, but not Curtis, although i think he had some stuff signed by him for himself)

I forget the exact price, but I believe it was $25 a pop. DrMoreau may recall.
Now, when compared to Stan Lee, it doesn't seem like much.
Also realize that at this and most collector shows, you can't go overboard while charging, and not get too out of line when compared to the other celebs.
You know, I can't charge $150 while other lesser knowns are charging $20.

But rest assured when it came down to it, he signed hundreds if not thousands of items.
The lines were supposedly around the interior of the building and out onto the street.

A good while back, a friend of mine was judging from the crowds and time spent, that over the course of a two day span he (Tony Curtis) must have pocketed in excess of $100,000.
Sound like a fabrication?? Not so quick........ realize that people were mailing things to others to get signed there, most were getting multiple items signed, not to mention that the company that hosted this event, took advance orders as well.

Do I blame Tony Curtis?? Not at all........ did he even need the money??? I doubt it. He most likely donated it or some of it anyway from what I heard.
Either way it puts things into perspective for us. :D

I believe Jackie Cooper had a similar weekend not too long ago, that once again DrMoreau attended.
Now, then I did have something signed. I have a shot from the Twilight Zone "Caesar and Me" episode, that I had Morgan Brittany sign in person in 2006 at the New Jersey TZ convention. I also had another identical shot I had picked up before.
Now both of those are signed by Morgan Brittany and Jackie Cooper.

If you want to see what that looks like, click here ----------> http://www.twilightzonemuseum.com/autog ... ooper1.php

That is actually a friends shot, but its pretty much identical.


Anyhow, I could go on and on about this sort of thing, and its too bad I got out of it a few years ago.
Perhaps when a good TV show or something comes along now I want to persue, I will get back into it.

I look forward to reading about and seeing more of your stuff soon!


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:51 am 
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I should mention something before anything else so that the wrong impression isn't left here --

the $125 charge for the Stan Lee signature was what CGC charged me. It's unclear to me what Lee himself charges for these signings. For example, I found out that artists Neal Adams and Steranko charge only $10, but the CGC charge was about $50 to get the comic graded & slabbed with the signature.

I'm not sure what the breakdown for the Stan Lee signature was, but it may have been something like $50 to get the comic book graded & slabbed, and $75 for the Lee signature itself.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:15 am 
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Kaptain Kirk wrote:
the $125 charge for the Stan Lee signature was what CGC charged me. It's unclear to me what Lee himself charges for these signings. For example, I found out that artists Neal Adams and Steranko charge only $10, but the CGC charge was about $50 to get the comic graded & slabbed with the signature.



Yeah, I figured that sum was the total amount involved.
You may or may not know, but most of those deals a company sets up, and they just tell someone (in this case Stan Lee), we will give you a certain amount of $$$ to do a signing, say $5,000. (Hey man, come on over, sign for 8 hours, or until your arm falls off, and make $5,000!!!) :ROTF:
Obviously I don't know the specifics in this case, but I am sure it was something of the sort.

Good for Neal Adams and Steranko! Thats a fair price, as undoubtedly there isn't that much of a market for their signatures anyway.
I say that, but its definitely the same with many of the "lesser known" actors I have gotten. There simply isn't a big market for those signatures, as not too many people really want them, outside of a certain circle of collectors.
Or someone who collects a special category of autograph.

I learned alot about this autograph business over the years, and thats exactly what it is, for some people....a business. Sadly, a small time collector like you and me, have to pay the premiums to get what we want, unless we can get it TTM.
The greed is getting worse and worse at the conventions, and the promoters don't care for the most part. They figure, "If you won't pay it, the next man will".

Only a few years before I started collecting, you could get something signed, or even buy a signed 8x10 from a typical actor at a convention, for like $10, or $15 if he was a bigger name.
Now the normal is $25, sometimes $20 a shot. :(

I don't blame someone for charging, really I don't. But when you figure you can get an 8x10 printed at a professional shop for less than a $1, often closer to 50 cents, it gets sad at some point. Sign and sell 3 and pay for a huge stack of shots, sell that whole stack in a day and then you are off to the races. :D


Does it sound like I am bitter towards those people? Not really, as I actually have spent next to nothing at these shows. I only attended one, that was in 2006 in New Jersey, and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. The look on Lois Nettleton's face when I unrolled a "The Midnight Sun" poster, was something I will never forget.
(on that note, I still regret we didn't get a copy sent to her before her passing :( )


Anyway, its a good hobby, and so is collecting comic books. I was just starting to get into comic books a bit many years ago, and my father and I went into the baseball card direction instead.
I often wish I had went the other route, as the baseball card business really went in the tank.
I sold off my stuff years ago though, when I got away from it.


Look forward to hearing more on this......


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Before we move to the darker side, I realized I neglected to mention some interesting history on my copy of JiM #83. This is all from memory; I don't have notes on this.

I purchased this comic book in the late eighties - probably in 1988. I bought it from some company that sold via mail order; I sent them a check or money order, probably after seeing an ad in the Comics Buyers Guide or something similar (this is before E-Bay, before the internet, so no images from what I recall - you kind of bought on sheer faith). I paid $150 for it; at the time, it listed at about $65 in GOOD condition in the Overstreet Price Guide; there was no listing for VG back then, but VG was usually twice that of GOOD. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the company sold the comic book as a VG+.

When I received it, I was dismayed to note that a small piece was missing from the lower right side (you can see it in the image). I called up the company and complained; that rough edge, which looks like a mouse may have taken a little bite off it, may not look like much, but back then it looked huge to me, a huge chunk missing. I stressed the large aspect of this piece when I phoned up the company rep; I felt I had been charged too much and that this detail had not been revealed to me. The rep offered to send me $25 back. I accepted and that was the end of it.

So, how many times have I complained like this to sellers? That was the only time, as far as I can recall. And the comic book in question is now one of my most valuable collectibles. That $25 sure sounds like a petty thing now, over 20 years later. It's also interesting to recall that there was a possibility back then of sending the comic book back for a full refund; I'm glad that didn't happen. Since CGC graded it VG, I guess the book held up OK and was not grossly oversold back then. The End.

PS: oh yeah - this means it ended up costing me $125 - the same amount charged for the Stan Lee signature all these years later...


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:28 pm 
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OK, I've been putting this off for over month because I realized this will be like me pouring salt into my own wound, but here it goes: for many years, since about 1986 or about 25 years, my most prized possession (or perceived prize, rather) was a copy of Avengers #4, published in 1964. This book was like the creme-de-la-creme of my collection - or so I thought.

Avengers #4 - raise your hands those who know why this is one of the major key Marvel books of the Silver Age (the sixties). The answer - it featured the return of Captain America. Yes, Capt. America - very popular during the World War II years. He was brought back briefly in the mid-fifties but that did not work out very well. But, in 1964, Stan Lee brought him back from the dead (he'd been 'on ice' actually) and had him join the Avengers team - in issue #4.

So I had this book and, for many years, thought it was one of my most valuable comic books (nothing crazy, like in the couple of grand range); I thought it was in Very Fine (VF or 8.0) condition; it looked great to me. And, it was a special book, not just any issue of the Avengers. About a year ago, I took a closer look at it and realized it probably was not a VF book; I had been looking at it before with some kind of rose-colored glasses or something. I realized then that it probably was a 7.0, if that. But, fine (or Fine/Very Fine ha-ha :) ); it was still a great book.

As I'm sure everyone here knows, a Capt. America film is coming out in a couple of months. About 4-5 months ago, I decided to send my copy of Avengers #4 in to CGC; the film was in the back of my mind - I figured a book like this would be even more prized after the film came out.

But, here's what happened when CGC got through with it:
Image

Yes, that's a 6.0 grade or Fine, and it's the Purple label of death - the label that tells everyone and their uncle that this is a restored book. In this case, the restoration seems to be some kind of color touch up on the cover somewhere - I don't even know where exactly - but it doesn't matter; it's the kiss of death in comic book grading, the sign that this book is permanently labeled flawed in that way, no good, lousy, crappy - it sucks.

It's worth? Maybe $200 or something. It's not even the resultant loss of the projected dollars from some future sale that's the worst of all this; no, it's the dream of having a great book suddenly shattered - now I've got essentially nothing - a shadow of what I thought would be a fantastic collectible. And, nothing dramatic like spilling water on it; no, just some unknown grader deciding that this was a bad book in that respect and sending it under a purple cloud of doom... :~}


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Sad story, sorry to read.

Is there any way to resend the issue back to them to regrade it? Or is it too risky and/or expensive to do? ( Not cost effective?)
From the cover it looks in great shape, imho, sadly I am no expert. Hopefully they will grade it higher.
8)

Good Luck!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:42 am 
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Mr.Z wrote:
Sad story, sorry to read.

Is there any way to resend the issue back to them to regrade it?

There's always that option.
Sending it back to CGC would probably net the same result.
It's one thing if it's just a judgment on general grading principles, but in the case of restoration, a book is either restored or it's not. It's highly doubtful a grader (or graders - they say more than one looks at the books) will overlook the restoration. Supposedly, they have experts who look into just that.

On the other hand, I don't have much to lose (except grading & shipping costs). I can try sending it to another service, such as PGX. But, here's the possible worse scenario -- PGX sends it back to me as restored and graded 5.5 :cry: - now I'm even worse off than before and some more dollars poorer.

As Dr. McCoy said on Star Trek, risky.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:32 am 
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Kapt, I'm a Doctor, not a grader lol, I do not blame you for being hesistant on taking risks.

I hope the other books in your collection will add up to alot of money.

I know the comic industry in general is not something to wage the house on. Yet, sometimes
the gems pay off.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:49 pm 
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This will divert this collectibles thread into yet another direction - I present here a copy of BayCon 3, the program book for the 3rd Baycon Comics Convention in 1977 (San Francisco Bay Area). The cover was by Jack Kirby, depicting one of his then-recent creations, Ikaris of the Eternals, flying away from what was presumably the Golden Gate Bridge under attack by a giant octopus (It Came From Beneath the Sea?). Back then, besides getting and holding on to the book/magazine itself, I managed to obtain signatures from Jack Kirby and Roy Thomas for the final page, labeled the "AUTOGRAPHS" page. The book is worth about $10 by itself in such decent condition; what's its worth with those two autographs? I have no idea; it depends on the buyer, how much they want it.
_____ Image Image

I'm sure that everyone here is familiar with Kirby, the King of Comics (Captain America, The Fantastic Four, Thor, New Gods, etc.), an artist, writer-creator. Going by memory, I got this autograph by having Kirby use my back as a writing back-surface when he signed that page (I think it was his idea; there were no tables nearby as he was walking from one area to another).

________ Image Image

Roy Thomas was one of the early fans who began their own fanzines at the start of the sixties (his was Alter Ego) and became a pro working for Marvel starting in the mid-sixties, as a writer under Stan Lee's supervision. When I got his autograph, I asked him how far ahead he had planned his stories for Conan the Barbarian and he responded that it was quite far ahead; he was just into the Belit saga in the Conan comics (around issue #75 at that point), which would last until issue #100, and that was all pretty much planned out.

I've always been impressed with Roy's work on Conan, which began in 1970 and lasted many years. With the help of superior artists Barry Smith and John Buscema, Roy crafted a lengthy, always entertaining saga, following a roughly-real chronological direction in depicting the life of Conan. Roy had posthumous help from Robert E. Howard, who created the whole Conan universe, but Roy really added to the whole concept, with much detail and truly gifted writing for a so-called comic book series. The series has been reprinted in book form by Dark Horse Comics in high quality volumes called "The Chronicles of Conan."


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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Man sells giant autograph collection for daughter's medical care




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Ken Kallin collected 120,000 pieces of memorabilia, including photographs signed by Muhammad Ali and Neil Armstrong, which he is selling to pay for his daughter's medical treatments.

OAKLAND PARK, Fla. — Three decades ago, Ken Kallin began amassing the 120,000 pieces in a memorabilia collection that includes photographs signed by Muhammad Ali and Neil Armstrong along with rare books and trading cards. By the end of Saturday, he's hoping to have gotten rid of nearly all of it — at an auction to benefit his ailing daughter.

Kallin's daughter suffers from a rare autoimmune disease that makes her bones dangerously brittle and causes her body's defenses to attack her own blood vessels. Her treatments are expensive and can involve powerful chemotherapy drugs often used to treat cancer patients.



A memorabilia expert who's not involved in the sale described Kallin's collection as "once-in-a-lifetime" and expects the auction to attract big spenders.

"It's for a higher purpose," said the 67-year-old Kallin.

His daughter, 43-year-old Julie Susi, suffers from mixed connective tissue disorder, or MCTD, which shares features with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Her brittle bones make it difficult to get around. She walks with a boot on her broken right foot and takes a dozen pills a day to help relieve back and joint pain. She also received chemotherapy treatment for vasculitis, an inflammation of blood vessels.

She can't work and said she and her husband are struggling financially. They have two children, she pays $2,200 a month for their insurance and her deductible is $1,250.

"I'm in a lot of pain," Susi said. "Some days are better than others."
But she also sees the sale as a chance for her father's private collection to have a public debut that shows the value of his years of collecting. The sale is taking place at a warehouse outside Fort Lauderdale with J. Sugarman Auction Corp.

"I had never looked at this to benefit me. I just want to see my father make it," she said.

Susi said she didn't bother turning down her father's offer. He wouldn't have listened to her anyway.


Kallin says he began collecting memorabilia after meeting actress Bette Davis in 1980. By the end of the evening, Davis had given Kallin five photographs with her signature on each.

From there, he pieced together his collection by attending golf tournaments and other celebrity appearances, often carrying head shots and other glossy photos to be signed. He scoured garage sales for collectibles. He even bought some items from friends.

"When I started, I said everything I get has to be on an item with their picture on it," he said. "Anybody can walk up to a celebrity and get a piece of paper and have them sign it. But to be prepared and to get it on a photo, takes a lot more work. But it's more viable.
Throughout the years, his collection grew to include 22,500-plus original photos with everyone from Michael Jackson to Julia Child and Elizabeth Taylor.

Kallin said he researches every photo's authenticity before including it in the collection by recording every detail from where it came from to its condition. He then follows two dozen other steps before placing the photos in protective plastic covers.

"There is a profit factor here, but if you calculate all of the sacrifices that we've made, it's a return on investment," said Kallin, who's earned money with a number of jobs ranging from counseling veterans to helping businesses be more efficient.

The collection includes more than 680 antique books; 7,300 or more contemporary books; about 1,430 letters; over 22,520 photos and some 60,740 trading cards — all autographed. He is also selling movie posters, sheet music dating back to 1864, vintage Tin Tin books in French, bowling pins, collectible plates in sets, sports memorabilia and other collectibles.

Kallin said he put together the massive collection for personal enjoyment and hasn't sold pieces of it before.

The collection hasn't been independently appraised, but the auction house and Kallin believe it's worth $4.5 million based on valuations for comparable items that have sold recently.

Kallin and the auction house also say his books would beat the Guinness World Record for a private collection of autographed books. They've asked Guinness to verify the claim, but it hasn't said whether it will send a judge to the auction.

"I don't think there's been a collection like this offered, or featured, in the history of auctions," said Jay Sugarman, the owner of the auction house.

The auction will include a dozen lots divided by category, so the 7,300-plus books will be auctioned as a complete set. Bids can be made online and the auction is expected to last just over an hour.

"That's a hall of fame caliber collection," said Neil Whiteley-Ross, who sells trading cards and other items for Bristol Collectibles on eBay. "That is a once in a lifetime collection that needs to be seen by everyone."

Whiteley-Ross, who isn't involved in the sale, said the collection should attract some of the biggest spenders in the industry.

Kallin is keeping two books by Bob Graham, a former Florida senator and governor, and one photo of Davis, the woman who started it all.

"There's things that have memories," he said. "They are all favorites. They were all like my babies when they came in."

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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:02 am 
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TV episodes, that's all I really collect, also boxing and MMA career sets of different fighters. I have every pro fight of Evander Holyfield, Floyd Mayweather, Miguel Cotto, Oscar De La Hoya and Yuriorkis Gamboa.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:10 am 
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As many of you know, I have collected a massive amount of autographs of TZ actors, the majority of which are 8x10s, and other miscellaneous pieces.
I sent off through the mail and got a large number of things signed by the actors themselves, and picked up a few things on EBAY over the years, that I liked and were fairly certain they were authentic.

In time, after I largely "got everyone I could get" within reason, I shifted my exploits towards OUTER LIMITS items.
I slowly amassed somewhere in the neighborhood of roughly 150 signed 8x10s from OL actors too.
(that number I have is somewhere about double that for TZ pieces)

As time went on, the same thing happened. I eventually "got everyone I could get", this time OL related, or pretty much sniffed out most larger names and my collecting is mostly complete.
The OL themed items soon grew more special to me, since they are much more rare.
Hell even the "plain/non-signed" original 8x10's and promo shots from the series have been known to fetch in the $300 range sometimes.


Andrew Ramage, who many of you know from other/older TZ boards, and the "TZ Museum" website, has been instrumental in helping me collect, but especially so in the beginning of my collecting.
Recently, he started acquiring some of the autographed OL cards that were produced in the early 2000's.
A bit of trivia- There were only 20 different signed OL cards.... that were placed every so often in packs with the regular cards.

https://scifihobby.com/products/checklist.cfm?SetID=40

There is a checklist above, that lists the entire set.
Though we haven't found any concrete proof, in the case of a few of the cards, there are supposedly only 100 signed in existence.
Leonard Nimoy, and William Shatner are obviously the most rare, we believe there were only 100 made and signed.
These two in specific tend to go in the $300 range, often a little more or less.
So the appeal is there for acquiring an entire set.
I have seen these entire sets go for anywhere from $1,000 to well over $2,000 with one currently listed on EBAY with a few small extras for $2500.

Regardless, my collecting days are basically over, and the same is true with Andrew for the most part, unless something rears its ugly head on EBAY, and 2 weeks ago, that very thing happened.
While perusing around looking for a card or two to aid him in filling out his set, I "stumbled across" something that is truly unique, and I will admit I have only ever seen one shot ever that is even remotely similar.
Of course I ended up getting into a bit of a bidding war to acquire this piece, and I will undoubtedly never see anything similar again.

A few hints -
It is a signed shot from one of my favorite Outer Limits episodes.
It is signed by one of my favorite actors.... in an instantly identifiable role, one ALL Outer Limits fans will recognize immediately.
This actor was never the "biggest" name, though he is known to all serious Twilight Zone and Outer Limits fans.
This item , truly is one of the "holy grails" of Outer Limits autographs.... it's got everything going for it, including being from one of the most popular episodes, and its just so exceedingly rare its a joke.
I have only seen one other shot ever signed by this gentleman that is Outer Limits related, so of course I was prepared to bid a hefty amount, to try and get this thing.

As luck would have it, I ended up acquiring it, but another serious collector came in during the closing minutes and fired in a number of bids, in an effort to get it , knowing how rare this thing truly is.
Actually, we were a bit fortunate. I had put in a secondary bid after the first one, to ensure someone wouldn't come along and "rob it" for a very low price. The final price was very close to the second bid I had fired in.
(this was pretty dumb in retrospect, since I would have been willing to bid much, much higher to get this piece)
But we got it, and all is well now.


The other piece that was actually years in the making, was the OL mini-poster I have referred to several times on this board.
What I had DrMoreau do, was essentially create an oversized poster, and I will soon mount the OL mini which is signed by 22 + actors from the original series.
I have also acquired a number of cards, 5 to be exact (the cards referred to above) to mount in the poster also.
I snagged a Shatner, Nimoy, Joe Stefano, David McCallum and Cliff Robertson, all of who I either couldn't get,they passed away, or it would be a tremendous risk sending that poster to them, and thats not happening.
Soon I will be getting the final version of the poster from DrMoreau, and I will get it framed once and for all.

Unfortunately, I am currently without a scanner, so I can't post any shots of my latest, EBAY acquisition.
It is the be all - end all of OL shots as far as I'm concerned.

Stay tuned, I will have it up here soon for you guys to see.




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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:01 am 
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You're killing me. I'm very interested to see what it is.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:34 pm 
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whitsbrain wrote:
You're killing me. I'm very interested to see what it is.



WOW~!...............life has gotten in the way and I have been busy.
Its hard to believe its been this long since I nabbed the item in question on EBAY and haven't gotten around to posting it.

For what its worth, an early snap of the shot has been forwarded to Andrew, and it will be included on his site. Soon I will have it linked here so you guys can see....hopefully within the next 2-3 days.
(if you didn't already know, the majority of signed stuff on Andrew's site, is TZ oriented, but when there is an individual not known to have signed any or many TZ photos, he often includes another example of that actors signature on his site)
That is the case with the specific shot, the actor had never signed any TZ shots that we have seen or known of....at least that we are personally aware of.

Also, Andrew has plans to include an OL dedicated page or area on his "TZ Museum" site.
All of my OL signed photos will be on display there, since the number of OL signed stuff is exceedingly more rare and very few collectors have any OL items at all.
He and I felt that since the shows are so closely related in many ways, some material from OL on his site would make a good addition.


Watch this thread soon for more info.





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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:33 pm 
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Hi everyone -

Yes indeed, I will be posting Scott's OL collection on www.twilightzonemuseum.com in the future. I seriously doubt anyone else has an OL collection, and most assuredly no one has as many as he does. I know how hard it is to amass a large collection. I certainly did that, over a 10+ year period, to build my TZ collection, most of which I sold off a few years ago. What fun it was, building it - but I'd never do it again. It took a ton of hard work but it led to many great things, when all is said and done - including the TZ conventions. I am new to the world of OL. I bought the complete 49 episode original series on DVD in 2008 and watched them all one time. Then I pretty well forgot about them until December of last year and now I am basically discovering them for the first time. They're all interesting, some more enjoyable than others. I have invested in the OL trading cards and I have all but just one card - BarBara Luna's autograph card, which is extremely hard to find. Hopefully someday I will have it. Unfortunately, Rittenhouse Archives did not do enough with OL. Likely, the Premier Release in 2001 did not sell well enough to warrant a second. In 1999, they tried doing it for TZ, and as I remember, they did not have a ton of hope for it and I don't think they ever planned doing more than two releases of them. But they did five. For some reason, OL didn't get equal time and there were a ton more potential signers in the 2002-2010 period that they could have used, who would willingly have signed. But, it is what it is. I am sure I would have collected a good number of OL signed 8x10's, but I did not have the interest in OL in those days that I perhaps do today. It was cheaper to collect back then, although not dirt cheap. Today, it's almost impossible to collect autographs inexpensively. The prices the actors charge at shows now is frightening in some cases.
Adam West charges upwards of $100. Many charge $50. Many charge 30 or 35. They don't give discounts, either. Most don't sign thru the mail anymore. Many of my TZ autographs were obtained free of charge. The atmosphere at conventions nowadays is entirely profit-driven, to the point where attending them is a real turn-off. The last time I went to one was in 2010 and I never went to any others. The Hollywood Show in LA is one of the worst in the country now.
Even many of the celebrities don't like it but they go there for the cash. As some reviews of it on Yelp have stated, "It's like the old folks were shipped over to the hotel from the local nursing home." Not my idea of a good time. Anyhow, sometime hopefully this year all of Scott's OL stuff will be posted on my website to view, "museum-style".

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Thanks Andrew, for the opinions....interesting as always.



Ok guys................here is my "ultimate OL piece".
Its actually stamped on the back, from where different "owners" had it in their collections.
It was in the "famous" Ronald V. Borst collection, which at one time was one of the largest horror and movie monster collections around.
It was also in yet another guys collection, whom I traced to California, in the Los Angeles area. Yet another collector.
I'm assuming that Borst himself acquired it, and the story goes that it was signed by Anderson when he was working at a playhouse late in life, in the Los Angeles area before his passing.

Someone stepped in right at the last minute, and fired in a bunch of bids in an effort to get it, but I ultimately ended up with it. It was sort of lucky, since I acquired it very near to my maximum bid. (this in itself was silly, since I would have went much higher if needed)
Next time in the event a true rarity comes up, I will go ahead and bid more appropriately.

Again, I have never seen ANY TZ shots signed by this guy EVER, and there is only ONE OTHER OL signed shot by this gentleman that I know of in existence....so its a rare specimen indeed.
This isn't the clearest shot, and was in fact taken on my cell phone. Soon I will get a scanner and start sending items to Andrew to include on a special OL section on his site, and I will get a better scan of this one.

Have a look.......................



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Unread postPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:56 pm 
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sweet pic

How many times did the bidder who jumped in at the last second try to up the price on you? Those guys are a-holes* by the way.


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:46 am 
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Hey SVB - it is nice to see you again, I don't think you and I have communicated in the better part of probably 8-9 years now but I remember you well from the old board. I left at the same time you guys did.

In answer to your question about the bidding wars, yeah, those guys can be real pricks. They will remain quiet until 10 seconds before the thing ends and then they will FIRE!! I bid on the Anderson shot for TZ DZ - I think the max bid I put in was $310 and the highest this other guy reached was 305. It was sitting at around 125 and then this guy really started to poke hard at 250, 275, 300, 305. He was hoping to avoid a bidding war because I am sure he thought that no one else would go as high as he would. As you can see, it did not work out in his favor though and he will never have that shot, unless another one comes up, and if it did, hell, I might just bid on it myself. Granted, I do not know if its worth 305. John Anderson was not a very famous actor. He had his 4 roles on TZ, his roles on OL, and in "Psycho." Outside of that, I think he was just a working class character actor. I read somewhere that he only picked up about 800 in wages for his 5 days of work on "The Odyssey of Flight 33", whereas some of the bigger boys and girls were pulling down $5,000 a week for their roles. John was definitely one of my favorite character actors. Yet, I do not have his autograph. I am sure he never signed any TZ photos, or if he did, I could probably count the number on one hand. Ditto for OL shots. Pre-eBAY, these shots were damned hard to find. I remember telling someone, after years of searching in vain for a shot from "In His Image", that if they ever found a shot from that episode, to please just pay whatever it cost and get the thing for me and I'd pay them later. Anyhow, sometime soon, all of TZ DZ's OL pics will be on my TZ Museum website. Ordinarily, I would not mix the two shows, or any other show, with TZ but since there is a serious shortage of autographed OL items, it only makes sense to just do it for the benefit of those who might be interested in seeing them. They won't see them anywhere else. If someone else in the world does have an OL collection, I doubt they will be sharing it in the same way; some of these people prefer to just keep everything close to the vest.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:39 pm 
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TZAndrew wrote:
Granted, I do not know if its worth 305. ---- John Anderson was not a very famous actor. John was definitely one of my favorite character actors. Yet, I do not have his autograph. I am sure he never signed any TZ photos, or if he did, I could probably count the number on one hand. Anyhow, sometime soon, all of TZ DZ's OL pics will be on my TZ Museum website.


Some quotes snipped.............

John Anderson is another one of those guys, that not many casual fans remember his name, but they DO remember his face being sprinkled all over 60's and 70's TV.
Sure, he is nowhere near a household name and the sad part about that is, he is one of the very few talented actors that never quite got the bigger parts.
This no doubt has led to his signed shots and items being extremely scarce, since he wasn't as "popular" as a lot of mainstream actors.


Ah yes, the age old question of worth.
Is it worth $300 or so, which is roughly what I paid for it......?
It is hard to say in this case, but I say "YES it is", and here is why.
Reasoning- When experts try and attach a value to something, the very first starting point is "what have other similar examples sold for?"
In this case, there are essentially NO OTHER EXAMPLES. (at least there aren't any other examples that are readily available)
If one doesn't have a base starting point, then you must go to the only example known, which is currently what I bought and have in my collection.
So lets say hypothetically we attach a $300 price point.

There is one other example in existence that I personally know of, and I think I have linked to it before, but let me dig it up for you all, in case you never saw it.
And trust me, it is a real doozy~!

Image


Scroll down this page http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum.yuk ... Vv8Dkab_h8

*NOTE* For the hardcore OL fans, the same guy has a number of very rare signed "monster shots" from OL.
Namely a "Bill Hart" signed shot from him as the monster in "Fun and Games", and signed shots from Hugh Langtry as a monster in "The Mice" and also one of the aliens in "Keeper of the Purple Twilight".
I have heard of a very few Bill Hart signed shots around here and there, but the Hugh Langtry signed shots may well be essentially one of a kind.
I am under the impression that those two gentlemen did a couple horror cons years ago, but I am not entirely sure. If thats the case, there may be a few of those floating around.

Anyway, the guy that owns those shots is named "Dennis", he owns that website. (moviemonstermuseum)
I actually emailed him 5-6 years ago, and tried to make him an offer on the John Anderson signed shot.
I even offered to trade him an item, or possibly several items, but he essentially said point blank............"ITS NOT FOR SALE".

So the only thing we could even begin to guess, is essentially "how much would get him to even think about parting with it"....
I never asked him, and our brief email never even got to that point, since he was adamant it wasn't budging.
I am not sure, but from the overall tone and way he responded, I would say its AT LEAST $300 to even get him to consider selling it.
(though it might not be for sale, for basically NO amount of money, or well into the thousands, who knows)

So if one looks back at the only two examples of signed John Anderson OL shots, we have one that was bought for roughly $300, and the other is "not for sale" and all we could do is guess at a figure that would make him even consider. That is likely to be far more than $300.

So I would estimate its definitely worth the $300 that I paid for it. Even if the only reason so, may be because there are no others available, combined with the fact that the one or two that actually were available, or are even in existence went for that or more.
I heard some "expert collectors" in another collectible type field talking one time, and they all agreed and have a saying.......
(when it comes to a truly rare or one-of-a-kind item) "If you don't think its worth that much - then try and find another one."

As Andrew and I have discussed before, autographed material values are hard to gauge.
The starting point is always "what can you get for it".
In this case, I doubt I could get say $500 for it if I were to slap it back up on EBAY.
But the truth of the matter is, if someone knocked on my door tomorrow, and offered me 15 $100 bills for it, I would NOT sell it.
When you think about it, what is $1,500 going to do for any of us, other than pay some bills for a month or two.
I might go the rest of my life and never find another similar signed Anderson shot.


Regardless, its not for sale, and certainly isn't going to be sold for what I can realistically get for it.
On that note, I have no idea what my OL collection is worth as a whole.
All I know is, if someone offered me $10,000 for it tomorrow, I think I would have to cough up the same answer that Dennis did to me years ago when I made him an offer on the Anderson shot he has............ "NOT FOR SALE".





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Unread postPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 4:16 pm 
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It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I like John Anderson. :D


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 4:36 pm 
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Haha well Beware, sometimes people over-pay for stuff. What you have to try to do is under-pay! And when it comes to collectibles like we have, which are very rare, education about them and the market is your best defense. But when it gets shitty is when people come along and just try to piss other people off
by bidding beyond what things are really worth.

And speaking of which, John was great as California Charlie! "Sick of the sight of it, eh?" "It's not often that the customer high-pressures the salesman!"

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:39 am 
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Sometimes market conditions may vary......

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