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TOL or TZ?
TOL 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
TZ 71%  71%  [ 12 ]
Equal 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
OTHER 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 17
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 Post subject: TOL or TZ
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Which is your Favorite?

Thanks goes to the Mr.TZ DZ, the cool man.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:29 pm 
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That's like asking me if I like my 20 year old daughter better than my 18 year old son. I love me both for different and the same reasons. :roll: People say you love your kids or parents the same but it's different but equal in many ways. :~} So I will vote the same............ :clap:


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:56 am 
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I like both, but The TZ definitely wins this one for me.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:04 am 
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I'm going with TZ.

I am definitely more nostalgic over it, as I remember many from when I was a tyke, and the syndication.

I do like TOL also, but TZ is nearer and dearer to my heart.

Good poll Mr.Z.
I figured you would get to it, and if you hadn't, I soon would have. :clap:

This is one I wish everyone would vote on, just to see the percentages.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:40 am 
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Well, both are near and dear, as Creeper pointed out, but TZ was my first love. And you never quite get over your first love.

TZ!


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:22 pm 
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my unfamiliarity with TOL makes me choose TZ. i have seen some TOL, but not enough to recall much of them.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Greetings all,

I too chose "EQUAL". Both were great shows that helped shaped science fiction television.

Happy Posting & Have Fun,

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:16 pm 
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I'm going with TZ.

Mr. TZ DZ,
I too go with TZ.
Yet, the few TOL episodes I have seen, I love that show too.

I am definitely more nostalgic over it, as I remember many from when I was a tyke, and the syndication.

Yes, unfortunately TOL was not syndicated in my area, when I was young, at least not that I know of.


I do like TOL also, but TZ is nearer and dearer to my heart.

Good poll Mr.Z.
I figured you would get to it, and if you hadn't, I soon would have. :clap:

Thank you, yet the thanks go to you for the inspiration. :D I would be honored to be titled
one of the resident Pollsters.

This is one I wish everyone would vote on, just to see the percentages.

I concur, hopefully all will vote here. Hopefully this will be the most popular SciFI board out there, so more will vote.


TZ DZ Fan


Mr. TZ DZ,You Zone and TOL $$$

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Twilight Zone....never seen TOL......shame on me


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:35 am 
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Absolutely TZ. I think it has to do with the fact that I was introduced to it first, but either way I loved the stories more. I'm grateful to have indulged in TOL and really like that series as well, but it'll always be TZ for me.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:09 am 
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Equal. I love them both.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:40 pm 
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SalvadoreVanBuren wrote:
Twilight Zone....never seen TOL......shame on me


I have seen about five episodes, or so, you can find them on the net, I bet some of our bros here can direct us in the direction.
:wink:

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:43 pm 
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SalvadoreVanBuren wrote:
Twilight Zone....never seen TOL......shame on me


Yeah, shame on you. :P

Me, I greatly prefer TOL.

TZ was a wonderful show, but relied on twist-in-the-tail endings.

OL boasted movie-like production values (Connie Hall's cinematrography, for example), and relied on good solid storytelling (no gimmicky endings).

A better (fairer) comparison would be . . .

What do you prefer, the hour-long TZ episodes or TOL?

Apart from a small handful of notable episodes, the hour-long TZ episodes proved a disappointing failure.

You only have to look at this forum to see that there's not (so far) been any enthusiasm shown for the hour-long TZ episodes . . .


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:31 am 
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Mr Trent wrote:

Apart from a small handful of notable episodes, the hour-long TZ episodes proved a disappointing failure.

You only have to look at this forum to see that there's not (so far) been any enthusiasm shown for the hour-long TZ episodes . . .



I respect your opinion here Mr. Trent more than many, but I beg to differ here.

There were were alot of good TZ eps, that were hour-longs.

Unfortunately, that format dragged it out a bit, so they were not as popular, but there were indeed several good ones..

"Miniature", and "In His Image", and "Death Ship" are favorites of mine.

BTW- The 4th season isn't open yet, we will see more support for them as soon as we get that section up and running.
I do agree, it didn't work quite as well.
Another odd note, several of my favorite episodes are in season 5, and thats not the norm either. :twisted:


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:24 am 
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TZ DZ Fan wrote:
Mr Trent wrote:

Apart from a small handful of notable episodes, the hour-long TZ episodes proved a disappointing failure.

You only have to look at this forum to see that there's not (so far) been any enthusiasm shown for the hour-long TZ episodes . . .



I respect your opinion here Mr. Trent more than many, but I beg to differ here.

There were were alot of good TZ eps, that were hour-longs.

Unfortunately, that format dragged it out a bit, so they were not as popular, but there were indeed several good ones..

"Miniature", and "In His Image", and "Death Ship" are favorites of mine.

BTW- The 4th season isn't open yet, we will see more support for them as soon as we get that section up and running.
I do agree, it didn't work quite as well.
Another odd note, several of my favorite episodes are in season 5, and thats not the norm either. :twisted:


TZ DZ Fan


Sorry, TZ DZ Fan, I do find many of the hour-long TZ episodes disappointing (hey, don't worry, it's just an opinion - don't let my views detract from your appreciation!).

Of the three you mention, I'm certainly very fond of "Miniature" and "Death Ship".

I tend to agree with Serling himself. Quote:

"Our shows this season were too padded. The bulk of our stories lacked the excitement and punch of the shorter dramas we intended when we started five years ago and kept to for a while. If you ask me, I think we only had one really effective show this season, 'On thursday we Leave For Home' . . . Yes, I wrote it myself, but I overwrote it."

Interestingly enough, I'm also very fond of 'On Thursday . . .'

No way am I knocking TWILIGHT ZONE (it's on my list of all-time-favourite TV shows), but I don't really go with this thread - which I'd liken to comparing a short story with a novel . . .


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:56 am 
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Mr Trent, interesting points, I was just thinking what if they condensed either the
hour long TZ or TOL to a half hour, how would fans appreciate them, more or less?
I too respect and admire your opinions, great thoughts :D


TZ DZ, I too have a real fondness for the Hour Longs, I do not think one of them is in
my least favorites list. The Parallel, Death Ship, In His Image, Miniature, On Thursday...,Valley Of the
Shadow,etc...are some of my favorite episodes. ( I also like alot of the 5th seasons).

I remember someone posted a short of Planet Of The Apes, and made it into less than a half hour
episode ( to be like a lost TZ episode) that was neat and nicely done.

Zone Peace

More later

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:27 am 
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Mr.Z wrote:
Mr Trent, interesting points, I was just thinking what if they condensed either the
hour long TZ or TOL to a half hour, how would fans appreciate them, more or less?


I don't go with the idea of abridged repeats . . . it seems like a pointless exercise to me!

Most people want extended versions of TV shows or movies . . . featuring stuff that originally made it to the cutting room floor.

To condense an hour long OUTER LIMITS show to half-hour format would be totally unthinkable to me . . . really bizarre idea . . . sorry!

And as a purist, I wouldn't expect similar treatment for the hour-long TZ shows.

OUTER LIMITS provided an engrossing hour of televised Science-fiction drama.

The half-hour format was ideal for the (main) thrust of TWILIGHT ZONE . . . a short story that had (for the most part) a nice twist-in-the-tail ending.

Short and sharp!

Like a good joke with a terrific punchline, perhaps?


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:21 pm 
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Mr Trent wrote:

Interestingly enough, I'm also very fond of 'On Thursday . . .'



Cool. "On Thursday We Leave for Home" is another that slipped my mind, and is one of my favorites as well.

I tend to look at TOL and TZ in different lights, and it seems as though you do also.

Both came from the same time period, and had many of the same actors. Even some similarities in the stories sometimes, but overall, two totally different shows.

Each fine in their own right, and they will forever remain classics to me as well.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:10 pm 
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To condense an hour long OUTER LIMITS show to half-hour format would be totally unthinkable to me . . . really bizarre idea . . . sorry!

Not a problem in the world, my good sir. :D :D :D

Alot of people say that some TZ episodes seem padded. Others say that they use fillers, or are repetitious at points.

OUTER LIMITS provided an engrossing hour of televised Science-fiction drama.

I think both TZ and TOL are phenomenol programs.

I guess, as I stated in The Midnight Sun thread, I am also watching these episodes, and thinking of viewers of today, how they have short attention spans, the so-called MTV mindset, and the ADHD crowd, which I sometimes fall under this category, and think how different programming is today, with constant different streams of images, or thoughts transmitted
to us at high speeds, all the times, compared to the slower more thoughtful pacing of then ( which is/
was a good and artistic thing).

The half-hour format was ideal for the (main) thrust of TWILIGHT ZONE . . . a short story that had (for the most part) a nice twist-in-the-tail ending.

Short and sharp!Like a good joke with a terrific punchline, perhaps?

I always say The Twilight Zone is an artistic rendering of Black Humor, thus great point, sir.

MrZ

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:57 am 
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I agree with TZ DZ Fan too, the hour shows of the TZ were very good, slightly better on the whole than the Outer Limits and I don't think merely because they rely on cheap twist endings for shock value, I just think the quality of writing was excellent, and On Thursday We Leave For Home is not just the best episode of season 4, but one of the best episodes full stop. There are three turkeys in the season however, they are Mute, The Incredible World Of Horace Ford and I Dream Of Genie, the latter 2 are particularly dreadful, but besides them the rest are great.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:59 pm 
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I agree with Mr. Trent. The hour-long Twilight Zones are not nearly as good as The Outer Limits.

But the half-hour TZs rule the world...

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:48 am 
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First of all you have to remember it's not really an equal comparison. For one thing at the time Twilight Zone had a greater reach across the United States due to the fact that it was shown a lot more and on a network, CBS, who had greater ratings. The Outer Limits was on only for about half the time and on a network, ABC, that was dead last at the time. Yes even though, they still had enviable numbers compared to today's satellite and cable selections. So to me it's still like asking me if I like my son or my daughter better. Ya love em both and love their differences. :)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:37 am 
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Rorschach wrote:
I agree with TZ DZ Fan too, the hour shows of the TZ were very good, slightly better on the whole than the Outer Limits and I don't think merely because they rely on cheap twist endings for shock value, I just think the quality of writing was excellent, and On Thursday We Leave For Home is not just the best episode of season 4, but one of the best episodes full stop. There are three turkeys in the season however, they are Mute, The Incredible World Of Horace Ford and I Dream Of Genie, the latter 2 are particularly dreadful, but besides them the rest are great.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only recently discovering OL?

As with TZ DZ fan, I've no desire to detract from your enjoyment of TZ (like I say, I'm a long-time fan of the show myself) . . . but you think episodes like "The Thirty Fathom Grave" and "He's Alive" are great?

Really??


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:15 am 
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Mr Trent wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
I agree with TZ DZ Fan too, the hour shows of the TZ were very good, slightly better on the whole than the Outer Limits and I don't think merely because they rely on cheap twist endings for shock value, I just think the quality of writing was excellent, and On Thursday We Leave For Home is not just the best episode of season 4, but one of the best episodes full stop. There are three turkeys in the season however, they are Mute, The Incredible World Of Horace Ford and I Dream Of Genie, the latter 2 are particularly dreadful, but besides them the rest are great.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only recently discovering OL?

As with TZ DZ fan, I've no desire to detract from your enjoyment of TZ (like I say, I'm a long-time fan of the show myself) . . . but you think episodes like "The Thirty Fathom Grave" and "He's Alive" are great?

Really??


I wouldn't say those you mentioned were "great" in that sense, but at least watchable. I can watch just about any TZ ep and enjoy it. But the same is true with "The Outer Limits", at least with me.

I will say this Rorschach, you seem very familiar with TZ, and I believe you have the DVDs..........right?
Upon first viewing, some of the Outer Limits episodes didn't seem to capture me like the TZ ones did.
That being said, in time I figure you will appreciate the OL series more, just as I have with many TZ episodes I hadn't seen until just a few years ago. (many TZ eps grew on me with repeat viewings, and I feel this may be the case with you and OL as well)

I guess I have a unique perspective on Outer Limits. I really "got into" the series, after dealing with many of the original actors, collecting authentic autographs. I started with TZ, but gradually eased into the Outer Limits.
I probably have the largest OL collection in the world. (mostly signed 8x10s, but a few other bits and pieces, including a restaurant "order pad" signed by one Cedric Hardwicke!)

I presume Mr Trent you have seen my collection? I have linked to it elsewhere on the board. I have over 100 pieces on display on a website, thanks to the help of DrMoreau. I got most of it "TTM" or through the mail, and a few pieces I had DrM get signed for me in person in the last couple of years.

TZ DZ fan

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:15 am 
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TZ DZ Fan wrote:
Mr Trent wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only recently discovering OL?

As with TZ DZ fan, I've no desire to detract from your enjoyment of TZ (like I say, I'm a long-time fan of the show myself) . . . but you think episodes like "The Thirty Fathom Grave" and "He's Alive" are great?

Really??


I wouldn't say those you mentioned were "great" in that sense, but at least watchable. I can watch just about any TZ ep and enjoy it. But the same is true with "The Outer Limits", at least with me.

I will say this Rorschach, you seem very familiar with TZ, and I believe you have the DVDs..........right?
Upon first viewing, some of the Outer Limits episodes didn't seem to capture me like the TZ ones did.
That being said, in time I figure you will appreciate the OL series more, just as I have with many TZ episodes I hadn't seen until just a few years ago. (many TZ eps grew on me with repeat viewings, and I feel this may be the case with you and OL as well)

I guess I have a unique perspective on Outer Limits. I really "got into" the series, after dealing with many of the original actors, collecting authentic autographs. I started with TZ, but gradually eased into the Outer Limits.
I probably have the largest OL collection in the world. (mostly signed 8x10s, but a few other bits and pieces, including a restaurant "order pad" signed by one Cedric Hardwicke!)

I presume Mr Trent you have seen my collection? I have linked to it elsewhere on the board. I have over 100 pieces on display on a website, thanks to the help of DrMoreau. I got most of it "TTM" or through the mail, and a few pieces I had DrM get signed for me in person in the last couple of years.

TZ DZ fan


To answer both of you TZ DZ Fan and Mr Trent, I said only slightly better which shows I'm not slating the Outer Limits and that I do rather like it and when I said that about season 4 being great it is a bit of a generalisation. I watched the 1st season of OL a while ago now, but I'm currently working my way through the 2nd season.

I think He's Alive is a really good episode of the TZ personally and though not quite as good The Thirty Fathom Grave is not bad too, but every shows has its number of bad ones, the Mutant and ZZZZ being prime exampls of OL poorer episodes, but that being said, you do both have good points, and a series can get to grow on you the more you watch it.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:00 am 
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Rorschach wrote:
I think He's Aliv is a really good episode of the TZ personally and though not quite as good The Thirty Fathom Grave is not bad too . . .


:yack:

I give up . . .


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Mr Trent wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
I think He's Aliv is a really good episode of the TZ personally and though not quite as good The Thirty Fathom Grave is not bad too . . .


:yack:

I give up . . .


I will say that Demon With A Glass Hand is better than those 2 episodes at least :)


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:59 pm 
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Rorschach, I was reading through your posts and you and I have similar likes and dislikes:

I was not a fan of "Zzzzz" (probably my least favorite of TOL) nor "The Mutant"; my least favorite S4 TZ episodes are the 3 you mentioned, and I am a big fan of "The Thirty Fathom Grave" and enjoy "He's Alive" (which gets a lot of thrashing).

Very cool! :clap:

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Rorschach wrote:
Mr Trent wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
I think He's Aliv is a really good episode of the TZ personally and though not quite as good The Thirty Fathom Grave is not bad too . . .


:yack:

I give up . . .


I will say that Demon With A Glass Hand is better than those 2 episodes at least :)


I would agree with this too -- it is in my top 10 TOL episodes.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:42 pm 
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lazyboyx51 wrote:
Rorschach, I was reading through your posts and you and I have similar likes and dislikes:

I was not a fan of "Zzzzz" (probably my least favorite of TOL) nor "The Mutant"; my least favorite S4 TZ episodes are the 3 you mentioned, and I am a big fan of "The Thirty Fathom Grave" and enjoy "He's Alive" (which gets a lot of thrashing).

Very cool! :clap:


What can I say lazybox51? You've obviously got excellent taste 8)


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:43 am 
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Love em both and have seen most of TOL, but like Dr. Moreau said--TZ is my first love.....

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:09 am 
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Twilight Zone for sure!


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NYR94 wrote:
Twilight Zone for sure!



Mr NYR,

Cool to see you post, just curious if you are a TOL fan, as well, thanks.

MrZ

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Mr Trent wrote:
SalvadoreVanBuren wrote:
Twilight Zone....never seen TOL......shame on me


Yeah, shame on you. :P

Me, I greatly prefer TOL.

TZ was a wonderful show, but relied on twist-in-the-tail endings.

OL boasted movie-like production values (Connie Hall's cinematrography, for example), and relied on good solid storytelling (no gimmicky endings).

A better (fairer) comparison would be . . .

What do you prefer, the hour-long TZ episodes or TOL?

Apart from a small handful of notable episodes, the hour-long TZ episodes proved a disappointing failure.

You only have to look at this forum to see that there's not (so far) been any enthusiasm shown for the hour-long TZ episodes . . .


I was just reading over posts on this section, even though it's old I could resist writing my opinion. I think both shows are good and you do raise some good points but I think TZ was easily better. Don't you think the TOL concept of the bear made the show somewhat limited compared to the broader range of stories in TZ? The whole idea of a monster of the week gimmick makes TOL seem like its intended target audience was more for kids I think, not because of its stories which were good, but because it always had to rely on monsters and I don't agree that TZ relied on twist endings, that was just one of the many things that made it as good as it was. Of course many of the TOL scripts were mature, intelligent and sophisticated but it's pretty obvious the main attraction of TOL was as a monster show. You speak of movie-like production values but despite the fact that TOL had impressive cinematography so did TZ especially by George T. Clemens and if you compare the special effects on both shows, I think TZ was clearly more consistently superior at least most of the time, sure it did have a few episodes with poor effects but it didn't have fake looking aliens in nearly every episode.


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One song I use to sing at other forums had the lyrics " Long Live the HOUR LONGS!!! Long may they live!" Sure they had some fair to middling episodes, yet I really
like : The Parallel, Death Ship, He's Alive,...Horace Ford, In His Image, Jesse-Belle, Miniature, Mute, NTLTP ,The New Exhibit, On Thursday...,Valley Of The Shadow,to name a few. A few of the ones I mention above are some of my favorie episodes.
I feel some of these had some great scifi concepts, themes and ideas that combined with good story-telling. If one states that they seem too padded, I would agree to an extent. I feel todays audience prefers shorter spurts of stories anyways, I know I sometimes lose interest in some hour long programming.

I have slowly started to watch episodes of TOL as of late, and I like their scifi themes, and enjoy their stories. Some episodes for me feel padded as well.

I see that they( TZ and TOL) are two different entities, yet do see similarities between them. I think this was asked before, yet I shall ask again, are there any Scifi
TZ episodes that could be TOL episodes, or adapted/converted into TOL episodes? Which, and how?
I respect all insight.

Thanks
MrZ

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"Long Live the Hour Longsssssss!!!!"

Long live TOL and TZ!!! Hopefully we can get the youths ( Cousin Vinny talk:Da youts ) to come around and watch
these great gems.

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I'll go with TZ by a pretty substantial margin over TOL. I think if you had asked me when I was younger, I might have rated them even-steven, or even put TOL ahead by a slight margin. It is now apparent to me after watching TOL on DVD that the writing, acting and filmaking on TZ is vastly superior, on the whole. It also seems that TZ was targeted toward a more mature audience, while TOL looked to a more teenage scream-in-the-dark crowd. It also doesn't help that TOL placed a much greater emphasis on special effects and costume which while cutting edge for the early-to-mid 60s look pretty dreadful now. Now please, I am not saying that some individual episodes of TOL are not superior to some individual episodes of TZ, often vastly superior. However, TOL did not have the consistency of high quality that TZ possesed, particualry during the death knell abreviated second season where, for me anyway, only Glass Hand stands out. Again not to say I don't love TOL, I do. Groundbreaking in the extreme and better then most of the Sci-Fi stuff, and I'm thinking of the Irwin Allen dreck in multiple series, which came out in the 60s. Just not as good as TZ.


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I first watched TZ in 1975, and tried to follow it ever since. Conversely, the first episode of TOL I watched was in 1988, it was a cable tv marathon of the show.
I am guessing that the tv networks never aired TOL after its first run in my area, or if they did, it was probably in the wee hours of the night, when most people especially children are sleeping. I wish they had aired it more in my area, I would have been big fan.
I truly believe that my exposure to the Zone at the age of 5 influenced my opinion of certain episodes to the more positive.

One Q: Did the TV Networks syndicate TOL episodes in your area, especially in the 70s and beyond????

I have seen more episodes of TOL lately, I think some of the episodes are superior to some episodes of TZ, as well.
This is kind of weird, yet I could probably say that a few TOLs are up there with my top 10 or 15 TZs.

Zone Peace

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Mr.Z wrote:
One Q: Did the TV Networks syndicate TOL episodes in your area, especially in the 70s and beyond????


Yes - I was watching TOL actually before TZ. Episodes like Nightmare, Demon, Zanti, and 2nd Chance have left an indelible imprint since childhood.


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DrMoreau wrote:
Mr.Z wrote:
One Q: Did the TV Networks syndicate TOL episodes in your area, especially in the 70s and beyond????


Yes - I was watching TOL actually before TZ. Episodes like Nightmare, Demon, Zanti, and 2nd Chance have left an indelible imprint since childhood.


I thought you said TZ was your first love Doc?


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DrMoreau wrote:
Mr.Z wrote:
One Q: Did the TV Networks syndicate TOL episodes in your area, especially in the 70s and beyond????


Yes - I was watching TOL actually before TZ. Episodes like Nightmare, Demon, Zanti, and 2nd Chance have left an indelible imprint since childhood.


Wow, this blows my mind. Maybe I just missed the episodes when they aired, perhaps playing with army men, lol. Or they just aired them too late.
I also have only seen 2 episodes of OSB, and the first time I ever watched an AHP and a NG was when I joined PTE.

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The Outer Limits by an eyelash.


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Mr.Z wrote:

Wow, this blows my mind. Maybe I just missed the episodes when they aired, perhaps playing with army men, lol. Or they just aired them too late.
I also have only seen 2 episodes of OSB, and the first time I ever watched an AHP and a NG was when I joined PTE.



I thought I was the only one here that had army men whan I was a child. :clap:


You will have to start catching a few of the more popular AHPs when you get a chance Mr.Z

It wasn't as consistently as strong as TZ or OL in my opinion, but it had its share of greats too.

I look forward to your comments.................
I'll draw up a list of "must-see" AHPs, and send them your way.


TZ DZ Fan

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:12 pm 
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Rorschach wrote:
Mr Trent wrote:
SalvadoreVanBuren wrote:
Twilight Zone....never seen TOL......shame on me


Yeah, shame on you. :P

Me, I greatly prefer TOL.

TZ was a wonderful show, but relied on twist-in-the-tail endings.

OL boasted movie-like production values (Connie Hall's cinematrography, for example), and relied on good solid storytelling (no gimmicky endings).

A better (fairer) comparison would be . . .

What do you prefer, the hour-long TZ episodes or TOL?

Apart from a small handful of notable episodes, the hour-long TZ episodes proved a disappointing failure.

You only have to look at this forum to see that there's not (so far) been any enthusiasm shown for the hour-long TZ episodes . . .


I was just reading over posts on this section, even though it's old I could resist writing my opinion. I think both shows are good and you do raise some good points but I think TZ was easily better. Don't you think the TOL concept of the bear made the show somewhat limited compared to the broader range of stories in TZ? The whole idea of a monster of the week gimmick makes TOL seem like its intended target audience was more for kids I think, not because of its stories which were good, but because it always had to rely on monsters and I don't agree that TZ relied on twist endings, that was just one of the many things that made it as good as it was. Of course many of the TOL scripts were mature, intelligent and sophisticated but it's pretty obvious the main attraction of TOL was as a monster show. You speak of movie-like production values but despite the fact that TOL had impressive cinematography so did TZ especially by George T. Clemens and if you compare the special effects on both shows, I think TZ was clearly more consistently superior at least most of the time, sure it did have a few episodes with poor effects but it didn't have fake looking aliens in nearly every episode.


I think one of the problems with this forum is that it was a spin-off site from another TWILIGHT ZONE group.

I was invited to join through my involvement with an OL site.

This thread is about as dumb as it gets, and gives the core membership of left-over TWILIGHT ZONE fans the opportunity to come out in strength against a show they see as their nearest rival.

The more intelligent type of member (which I guess doesn't include you, Rorschach), appreciates something like OL on its own merits and doesn't go with this dumb 'competitive' theme.

I've said it before, TZ dealt with Fantasy (for the most part) and sometimes featured Science-Fiction episodes.

THE OUTER LIMITS was a Science-Fiction series.

THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT SHOWS, surprise, surprise!!!

I hadn't read this particular thread in months . . . but now I take a look-see and I read your post - which sounds like sour grapes (on a sort of childish playground-type argument/scenario, "My dad is better than your dad").

I really can't be bothered arguing with you here. You obviously have very limited knowledge about THE OUTER LIMITS.

Just for the record . . .

As the pilot show for OL ("The Galaxy Being") featured an alien creature, OL's production company was obliged to give the network what they bought (a Science-Fiction show that featured Alien creatures).

The show was made during the early 1960s, and whilst you might find a lot of the creatures 'fake-looking' . . . they were cutting-edge for that time-period.

If you want to dwell on fake-looking creatures . . . perhaps I could point you in the direction of some TZs:

"The Invaders" (finger puppets . . . literally!)
"The Howling Man" (horns, pointy-ears, long nose, etc, etc) . . . a real (cliched) howl!
"Mr Dingle, the Strong" (the most ridiculous-looking aliens ever seen!) . . . yeah, tell me it's a comedy and it's all part of the fun.
"To Serve Man" (this week, we'll get a tall actor and give him an enlarged cranium) . . . yawn.
"The Fugitive (featuring another ridiculous-looking 'Monster')
"Once Upon a Time" (Buster Keaton with a pressure-cooker perched on the top of his head)
"Hocus-Pocus and Frisby" (laughable alien)
"Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" (jeez, that gremlin is so cute-looking - I just wanna hug him and take him home for my daughter!).
"Black Leather Jackets" (Hey, this week we'll do THE WILD ONE/S and have some, 'Hell's Aliens').

If you're into these type of (pointless) debates maybe we could start one called, "Which is better, STAR TREK or LOST IN SPACE?"

I'd have you down for LOST IN SPACE on that one (STAR TREK might be too cerebral for you . . . ).


:x


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Mr Trent wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Mr Trent wrote:
SalvadoreVanBuren wrote:
Twilight Zone....never seen TOL......shame on me


Yeah, shame on you. :P

Me, I greatly prefer TOL.

TZ was a wonderful show, but relied on twist-in-the-tail endings.

OL boasted movie-like production values (Connie Hall's cinematrography, for example), and relied on good solid storytelling (no gimmicky endings).

A better (fairer) comparison would be . . .

What do you prefer, the hour-long TZ episodes or TOL?

Apart from a small handful of notable episodes, the hour-long TZ episodes proved a disappointing failure.

You only have to look at this forum to see that there's not (so far) been any enthusiasm shown for the hour-long TZ episodes . . .


I was just reading over posts on this section, even though it's old I could resist writing my opinion. I think both shows are good and you do raise some good points but I think TZ was easily better. Don't you think the TOL concept of the bear made the show somewhat limited compared to the broader range of stories in TZ? The whole idea of a monster of the week gimmick makes TOL seem like its intended target audience was more for kids I think, not because of its stories which were good, but because it always had to rely on monsters and I don't agree that TZ relied on twist endings, that was just one of the many things that made it as good as it was. Of course many of the TOL scripts were mature, intelligent and sophisticated but it's pretty obvious the main attraction of TOL was as a monster show. You speak of movie-like production values but despite the fact that TOL had impressive cinematography so did TZ especially by George T. Clemens and if you compare the special effects on both shows, I think TZ was clearly more consistently superior at least most of the time, sure it did have a few episodes with poor effects but it didn't have fake looking aliens in nearly every episode.


I think one of the problems with this forum is that it was a spin-off site from another TWILIGHT ZONE group.

I was invited to join through my involvement with an OL site.

This thread is about as dumb as it gets, and gives the core membership of left-over TWILIGHT ZONE fans the opportunity to come out in strength against a show they see as their nearest rival.

The more intelligent type of member (which I guess doesn't include you, Rorschach), appreciates something like OL on its own merits and doesn't go with this dumb 'competitive' theme.

I've said it before, TZ dealt with Fantasy (for the most part) and sometimes featured Science-Fiction episodes.

THE OUTER LIMITS was a Science-Fiction series.

THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT SHOWS, surprise, surprise!!!

I hadn't read this particular thread in months . . . but now I take a look-see and I read your post - which sounds like sour grapes (on a sort of childish playground-type argument/scenario, "My dad is better than your dad").

I really can't be bothered arguing with you here. You obviously have very limited knowledge about THE OUTER LIMITS.

Just for the record . . .

As the pilot show for OL ("The Galaxy Being") featured an alien creature, OL's production company was obliged to give the network what they bought (a Science-Fiction show that featured Alien creatures).

The show was made during the early 1960s, and whilst you might find a lot of the creatures 'fake-looking' . . . they were cutting-edge for that time-period.

If you want to dwell on fake-looking creatures . . . perhaps I could point you in the direction of some TZs:

"The Invaders" (finger puppets . . . literally!)
"The Howling Man" (horns, pointy-ears, long nose, etc, etc) . . . a real (cliched) howl!
"Mr Dingle, the Strong" (the most ridiculous-looking aliens ever seen!) . . . yeah, tell me it's a comedy and it's all part of the fun.
"To Serve Man" (this week, we'll get a tall actor and give him an enlarged cranium) . . . yawn.
"The Fugitive (featuring another ridiculous-looking 'Monster')
"Once Upon a Time" (Buster Keaton with a pressure-cooker perched on the top of his head)
"Hocus-Pocus and Frisby" (laughable alien)
"Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" (jeez, that gremlin is so cute-looking - I just wanna hug him and take him home for my daughter!).
"Black Leather Jackets" (Hey, this week we'll do THE WILD ONE/S and have some, 'Hell's Aliens').

If you're into these type of (pointless) debates maybe we could start one called, "Which is better, STAR TREK or LOST IN SPACE?"

I'd have you down for LOST IN SPACE on that one (STAR TREK might be too cerebral for you . . . ).


:x


lol, that was quite amusing to read Mr Trent, funny how you chose my just defending why I preferred TZ to TOL and not agreeing with your comments was a personal attack on you, hilarious how you call me childish, I'm 25 and guessing probably considerably younger than you are, but by attacking me and this thread; hence the one who started it and maybe even everyone else who has commented I think you're showing how childish you are.

As for the examples you've cited of episodes of the TZ with fake looking aliens, I admitted there were some inferior ones, I just said TOL had more, thats my opinion.

"TWILIGHT ZONE, for the most part, dealt in Fantasy - employing a twist-in-the-tail ending, to surprise the viewer.

OUTER LIMITS was Science-Fiction, telling a 'themed' story (Second Chance . . . Loss of Identity . . . Loss of Humanity . . . Invasion of Privacy, etc.), designed to make the viewer reflect on the human condition. "

You're showing how narrow minded and biased towards TOL you are in the above comment which you made in TOL general chat section. Summarising TZ as merely being about the twist endings and saying that TOL had themed stories about second chances, loss of humanity and so on, that it was about the human condition. Alright fair enough but unless you are blind I don't see how anyone could fail to notice that TZ was also about those very themes.


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You guys have both exhibited your admiration for each series. Both of those positions are well-founded for certain.

I love both shows and have never been able to decide which series I like better (if that's even really necessary). They are both examples of smart, thought-provoking television that has basically become extinct. They both have their own strengths and weaknesses.

The thing that endears TOL to me are the "bears". It goes without saying that the series is smart to say the least (particularly the first season).

And on the flip side, while the most fun of TZ for me are the "twist" endings, the fantastic storytelling is the real highlight.

They are both the cream of the crop to me.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:33 pm 
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Rorschach wrote:
DrMoreau wrote:
Mr.Z wrote:
One Q: Did the TV Networks syndicate TOL episodes in your area, especially in the 70s and beyond????


[align=justify]Yes - I was watching TOL actually before TZ. Episodes like Nightmare, Demon, Zanti, and 2nd Chance have left an indelible imprint since childhood.


I thought you said TZ was your first love Doc?


It is and was. As a boy, I was watching TOL for many reasons - the biggest being I believed Vic Perrin when he said, "We are controlling the Transmission," and then rolled my screen and raised and lowed the volume. I honestly believed as a child I couldn't change the channel - silly in retrospect but as a child - this seemed quite possible. The other reasons were the monsters - BEARS if you please. They were creepy yet cool and intermingled with the stories usually worked. This was the serious hard core SciFi with intelligence and reaction that the Irwin Allen shows didn't possess. Not everything had a happy ending, people died, and messed up stuff was for the most logical and plausible.

TZ on the other hand, was engrossing because it held no boundaries. We dealt with future, past, present, aliens, spiritual entities, and mans own perverse foibles. As Mr. Trent stated, it wasn't pure SciFi it was more or less fantasy. It could be both spooky and scary or scifi and strange. It has a completely different feel then TOL. Where TOL usually with minor exception gave you a teaser before the credits, you could sort of gage what you were about to see. This in a lot of ways played against the show, because if the teaser didn't entice you, you could change the channel - or in my case, go outside for a hour until control of the TV was returned.

Rod was warm and comforting like an Uncle telling you a story. Vic was narrative and informative like a documentary. TZ held an everybody quality - kids and adults alike, whereas TOL was mainly geared towards thinking adults. Nothing in TZ was exceptionally terrify. TOL could scare the hell out of you with either the story or the monster. TZ was more or less the Bradbury style scifi where as TOL was the H.G. Welles and 50's scifi where aliens were a threat and not just misunderstood. But mostly, the difference between the 2 were, at least for me, TZ was warm and fuzzy welcoming and TOL was "We dare you watch this." As a boy - I didn't always want to take that dare.

As a teenager and adult, however, TZ was fun to watch especially with it's marathons. TOL was when you wanted to see a damn good story that may or may not end well but had a start, middle, and finish line. TZ stayed open ended at times which led to alternative possibilities. TOL was never that vague you knew there was going to be a resolve - good, bad or otherwise; eg: A Feasibility Study. Although TZ is technically a Scifi show, TOL was without question a scifi - not something that just dabbled in the genre.

Now, if you take the best 10 episodes of both series and do a side by side comparison, there is a more even playing field. Being more of a horror/fantasy person, TZ is my choice. Not that TOL doesn't have any of these aspects but it is definitely and consistently pure scifi. Granted, I'm not as passionate as Mr. Trent here is, Hi Terry, but to place them both in the same arena because of the themes and times they were being shown is like comparing chocolate to peanut butter. I think of these shows like a Reese's Peanut butter cup. 2 great shows that taste great together or separately, which ever you prefer.[/align]


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A good in depth answer there DrM, thanks 8)


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Damn! You're on a roll today, DrM!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Rorschach wrote:

. . . hilarious how you call me childish, I'm 25 . . .



Well, Mr Ink-Blot-Face . . . when your mental age catches up to your physical age, and you begin to show signs of actually knowing what you're talking about, I hope to see a more intelligent and well-reasoned post out of you.

But seeing as that's not about to happen any time soon . . . I'll make a point of averting my eyes away from your worthless posts/inane opinions.

At this moment in time, it's a pointless exercise debating anything with you.

Anything I say will simply go over the top of your head (or in one ear, and out the other - with nothing in the middle to absorb the words).

As of now, I will read nothing further from you.

Thank god for the scroll-down key.


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