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Rate "Fall Out "
10 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
9 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
8 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
7 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
6 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
5 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
3 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
1 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 7
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 Post subject: FALL OUT
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:55 pm 
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Episode 16 - Fall Out

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ORIGINAL BROADCAST: 4 February 1968
CAST: Patrick McGoohan, Leo McKern, Kenneth Griffith, Alexis Kanner, Angelo Muscat
WRITERS: Patrick McGoohan, Kenneth Griffith & George Markstein
DIRECTOR: Patrick McGoohan

SUMMARY: Upon defeating Number 2, Number 6 gains his right to individuality. He sits as guest of honor at the trials of Numbers 2 & 48, who are being charged with the crime of individuality. Upon an outrageous Assembly, we discover the identity of #1 and find out if Number 6 can escape the Village once and for all.



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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:17 am 
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I must say, that as a "finale" to the series (I know it was a bit rushed from what I read), it lacks a bit.

It literally is something out of a bad "acid trip".

I don't want to slight it though, there are some great points. Unfortunately there are too many questions left unanswered.
Patrick McGoohan said himself in an interview in 2006 or so, "If you can make sense of the finale, then please let me know". HAHA~!
He had been quiet about it until then..... I find that interesting.

I don't understand when he addresses the crowd why they mock him and they won't let him finish. Thats silly , and there is no apparent reason for it. They apparently want him to lead them, but yet they won't let him finish his sentences. Crazy......... :roll:

Anyhow, its good with him finally seeing "number 1" although I expected the way it went down.

Good to see him finally make his getaway~~~~!
Leo McKern makes a reappearance, as a great former "number 2".
But a really great showing by Alexis Kanner as "number 48" who was around before, he is a high point of the show!
He also had a tremendous role in "Living in Harmony". (this was never aired)


7- well above average.
Would be stronger, if it wasn't so damn wild ass................... Good ideas though.

I believe Woodrow called McGoohan a "curmudgeon" somewhere on this board. I don't know if thats the case..............but if the finale of this rubbed off on him a bit, he is off the deep end for sure. :twisted:


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:39 pm 
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Yeah and what's the deal with Number 6 leaving with The Butler and how come the door to his house or apartment, or I think they call it a flat in the UK, how come it opened and closed the same way the ones in The Village did? What the hell does it all mean?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:08 am 
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Anthony wrote:
Yeah and what's the deal with Number 6 leaving with The Butler and how come the door to his house or apartment, or I think they call it a flat in the UK, how come it opened and closed the same way the ones in The Village did? What the hell does it all mean?


It's all symbolic and it means whatever you want to interpret it to mean. A classic thinking man's show...

This is a ten!


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:55 am 
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Cyril The Thrill wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Yeah and what's the deal with Number 6 leaving with The Butler and how come the door to his house or apartment, or I think they call it a flat in the UK, how come it opened and closed the same way the ones in The Village did? What the hell does it all mean?


It's all symbolic and it means whatever you want to interpret it to mean. A classic thinking man's show...

This is a ten!


Well I know that and it is a ten, but I was wondering what your and others interpretations are of the series finale. What I gathered was we make our own prisons for ourselves and we're our own worst enemy and have to fight the good fight to overcome our obstacles. I think there's a full collection of this show from A&E and of Danger Man/Secret Agent from another company. Isn't this also an unofficial continuation of Secret Agent? I saw these on VHS, I've been meaning to get all the episodes on DVD too. What was the one where Number 6 outsmarts a computer and it breaks down or explodes? That was a good one too. Why is this show considered sci-fi, it it because of all the gadgets? I see it more as a drama, great show either way though. American newtworks would probably never air a show like this these days because it actually forces you to use your brain and isn't just mindless entertainment for the 15-25 demographic. Anybody ever see the great Prisoner parody they did on The Simpsons, it even had Patrick McGoohan as Number 6? McGoohan was also great on Columbo, appearing twice in the original and two more times in the new series.


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 Post subject: Re: FALL OUT
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:58 am 
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Cyril The Thrill wrote:
Episode 16 - Fall Out

ORIGINAL BROADCAST: 4 February 1968
WRITERS: Patrick McGoohan, Kenneth Griffith & George Markstein
DIRECTOR: Patrick McGoohan


SUMMARY: After witnessing the trials of Number 2 and Number 48 and meeting the President of the Assembly, Number 6 escapes during the chaos that follows.


I thought this was episode 17.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Cyril The Thrill wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Yeah and what's the deal with Number 6 leaving with The Butler and how come the door to his house or apartment, or I think they call it a flat in the UK, how come it opened and closed the same way the ones in The Village did? What the hell does it all mean?


It's all symbolic and it means whatever you want to interpret it to mean. A classic thinking man's show...

This is a ten!


So then nobody knows huh?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:26 am 
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So no other interpretations for this episode? Opinions? Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: FALL OUT
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:44 pm 
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Anthony wrote:
Cyril The Thrill wrote:
Episode 16 - Fall Out

ORIGINAL BROADCAST: 4 February 1968
WRITERS: Patrick McGoohan, Kenneth Griffith & George Markstein
DIRECTOR: Patrick McGoohan


SUMMARY: After witnessing the trials of Number 2 and Number 48 and meeting the President of the Assembly, Number 6 escapes during the chaos that follows.


I thought this was episode 17.


Nope, this is episode 16, as Arrival is episode 0. ;)


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:50 pm 
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Yeah - one of the funner aspects of this show - it started at 0. I know it was 1967 and was hip for other reasons, but even today, it is a strange oddity that really adds to the shows allure.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:28 am 
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So any other interpretations of this episode?


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Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:45 am 
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Anthony wrote:
So any other interpretations of this episode?


I am a bit hungover.................been up all night Anthony.

I will try and explain more on this tonight before I go out.

But suffice it to say that I thought it a bit "wild ass", and a little off the deep end. There was one big error that took a little bit away for me, but I still think its a good finale though.

Speaking of this, you should check out "Nowhere Man".
Its a definite cross between "The Prisoner" and "The Fugitive".
Much more modern and Bruce Greenwood is great! I started a thread in the general tv section, and if you get it (the dvd set) you wont be disappointed.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:44 pm 
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If you are going to have to completely wrap up a show as weird and wild as this on, here is a good way to do it. If you come in from "Once Upon A Time" and follow into this - it plays so damn strong.

#48 - probably my favorite villain from the entire series. #2 isn't a villain per se, just another authority head. #48, like #6, have their own rules. Leo McKern's #2, also, had his own set of rules which was shown in the opening scenes of "Once Upon A Time" and followed through here. Welcome back Kenneth - I'm glad to see they put you in charge of the assembly.

Them bones, them bones ...

10!


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:35 pm 
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TZ DZ Fan wrote:
Anthony wrote:
So any other interpretations of this episode?


I am a bit hungover.................been up all night Anthony.

I will try and explain more on this tonight before I go out.

But suffice it to say that I thought it a bit "wild ass", and a little off the deep end. There was one big error that took a little bit away for me, but I still think its a good finale though.

Speaking of this, you should check out "Nowhere Man".
Its a definite cross between "The Prisoner" and "The Fugitive".
Much more modern and Bruce Greenwood is great! I started a thread in the general tv section, and if you get it (the dvd set) you wont be disappointed.


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So thinking any clearer? What did you think of the episode and what was your interpretation?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Anthony wrote:
So any other interpretations of this episode?


Image

OK - in a nutshell round-up on this episode.

1) The Assembly: Nice visual contrasts here. The white robes and hoods with the counter-charged Black & White Comedy/Tragedy masks. If one pays attention to the orientation of the counter-charging - the comedy side is painted black whereas the tragedy side is in the white. Is this symbolically stating that the black or dark side has more fun where as the good white side has all the sorrow? Quite possibly. After all, no good deed goes unpunished. Is it better to consistently do the right thing and obey the laws that will ultimately make you the most unhappy in the end? Is it better to play by your own rules - however they may be perceived - and enjoy your life? I'll come back to this in my final synopsis.

Let's also take a look at our assemblies Representatives titles for a moment. Welfare, Pacifists, Anarchists, Defectors, etc. Here we have a gambit of social "labels." Basically, a representation of all of man's own ideology towards our fellow man. More importantly, they are no longer numbers - they are elevated into a newer category - a labeled category. Being that it a assembly of perceived democracy. People of power and influence. So, all of us are but numbers and the few elevated are our labels.

2) The Numbers: We have a reprise of #48, previously seen in "Living in Harmony," who went against the staging and acted as an individual. McKern's #2, who was far more the self made #2 then any of his counterparts. McKern drew a line in the sand simply stating how he will be handling the situation. He never was concerned about reporting to #1 or any repercussions. Same can be said for #48. He played the game but decided he wanted to play within their guidelines but by his rules. Lastly, #6. Also head strong and playing by his own rules and be damned the cost. However, #6 becomes recognized as an Individual and no longer a number. Why he alone and not #2 & #48 - failure. Both went against #6 in a personal private fashion. Sure, they were working for #1, but held their own agenda outside the grand scheme. So, since they lost, they are being held accountable for youth and recklessness on the part of #48 and personal vanity in the case of #2.

What the hell are you saying, Doc? Both men went against #6 due to pride, vanity, and strong wills. The Number system is about by the book. Never put your neck out. Step and fetch. Know your place. Neither #2 nor #48 accepted their place or this restriction upon their individuality. Hence, they weren't mere numbers but numbers with aspirations of becoming an Individual.

3) The Individual: Sure it sounds good. You get to sit on a gilded thrown and witness all the contempt that the labels and numbers have for one another. We even see that the the numbers can sway the Labels for a while - but only a while. As we noted when #6 - now an individual - tries to address the Assembly, his words get buried and drown out. An individual can not be heard above the masses of Pacifists, Anarchists, defectors, malcontents, and what have you. They may recognize you but never hear you.

4) Who is #1? Well, as we find out, #6 is during his final confrontation with himself. Symbolically, this is true for everyman. We are our own masters regardless of what someone else may impose upon us. To thine own self be true. Regardless of the conformity the labels wish to place upon you, you are still an individual and not a number. You may live in their villages, live under their rule, but you are never truly part of them unless you allow yourself to become a number. As #2 so regrettably confessed.

Final Synopsis: Society is made up of numbers that strive to become labels - however - in doing so the stop being individuals. The labels would like everyone just to be a number so they can easily account for them. The individual knows his place in society and will refuse to go along with the crowd just to be a number. Sometimes the wrong choice will make you happier than the right choice but one must never sacrifice themselves, their creed, or their being else they are relegated to being either a number or a label. And as we see in this show, an individual can be with a number or a label without sacrificing their individuality along the way.

But this is just my opinion. I am no Prisoner savant or scholar just an individual drawing his own interpretation to the events as presented.


DrM


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:54 pm 
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DrMoreau wrote:
Anthony wrote:
So any other interpretations of this episode?


Image

OK - in a nutshell round-up on this episode.

1) The Assembly: Nice visual contrasts here. The white robes and hoods with the counter-charged Black & White Comedy/Tragedy masks. If one pays attention to the orientation of the counter-charging - the comedy side is painted black whereas the tragedy side is in the white. Is this symbolically stating that the black or dark side has more fun where as the good white side has all the sorrow? Quite possibly. After all, no good deed goes unpunished. Is it better to consistently do the right thing and obey the laws that will ultimately make you the most unhappy in the end? Is it better to play by your own rules - however they may be perceived - and enjoy your life? I'll come back to this in my final synopsis.

Let's also take a look at our assemblies Representatives titles for a moment. Welfare, Pacifists, Anarchists, Defectors, etc. Here we have a gambit of social "labels." Basically, a representation of all of man's own ideology towards our fellow man. More importantly, they are no longer numbers - they are elevated into a newer category - a labeled category. Being that it a assembly of perceived democracy. People of power and influence. So, all of us are but numbers and the few elevated are our labels.

2) The Numbers: We have a reprise of #48, previously seen in "Living in Harmony," who went against the staging and acted as an individual. McKern's #2, who was far more the self made #2 then any of his counterparts. McKern drew a line in the sand simply stating how he will be handling the situation. He never was concerned about reporting to #1 or any repercussions. Same can be said for #48. He played the game but decided he wanted to play within their guidelines but by his rules. Lastly, #6. Also head strong and playing by his own rules and be damned the cost. However, #6 becomes recognized as an Individual and no longer a number. Why he alone and not #2 & #48 - failure. Both went against #6 in a personal private fashion. Sure, they were working for #1, but held their own agenda outside the grand scheme. So, since they lost, they are being held accountable for youth and recklessness on the part of #48 and personal vanity in the case of #2.

What the hell are you saying, Doc? Both men went against #6 due to pride, vanity, and strong wills. The Number system is about by the book. Never put your neck out. Step and fetch. Know your place. Neither #2 nor #48 accepted their place or this restriction upon their individuality. Hence, they weren't mere numbers but numbers with aspirations of becoming an Individual.

3) The Individual: Sure it sounds good. You get to sit on a gilded thrown and witness all the contempt that the labels and numbers have for one another. We even see that the the numbers can sway the Labels for a while - but only a while. As we noted when #6 - now an individual - tries to address the Assembly, his words get buried and drown out. An individual can not be heard above the masses of Pacifists, Anarchists, defectors, malcontents, and what have you. They may recognize you but never hear you.

4) Who is #1? Well, as we find out, #6 is during his final confrontation with himself. Symbolically, this is true for everyman. We are our own masters regardless of what someone else may impose upon us. To thine own self be true. Regardless of the conformity the labels wish to place upon you, you are still an individual and not a number. You may live in their villages, live under their rule, but you are never truly part of them unless you allow yourself to become a number. As #2 so regrettably confessed.

Final Synopsis: Society is made up of numbers that strive to become labels - however - in doing so the stop being individuals. The labels would like everyone just to be a number so they can easily account for them. The individual knows his place in society and will refuse to go along with the crowd just to be a number. Sometimes the wrong choice will make you happier than the right choice but one must never sacrifice themselves, their creed, or their being else they are relegated to being either a number or a label. And as we see in this show, an individual can be with a number or a label without sacrificing their individuality along the way.

But this is just my opinion. I am no Prisoner savant or scholar just an individual drawing his own interpretation to the events as presented.


DrM


Brilliant. Not only are we our own masters but we can be our own worst enemy. And I guess once #6 figured all of the above out, that's when he stopped being a Prisoner, took charge, kicked some more ass and went home. Interesting how he brings The Butler with him and his door opens and closes on its own, without a key, just like in The Village. I guess this was supposed to mean we make our own prisons for ourselves or maybe just thrown in there as a wink at the audience, just for the hell of it so we'd go why the hell did that happen. :D

Two interesting theories I've also heard about this series. One is that some consider The Prisoner a continuation of Patrick McGoohan's previous series, Danger Man/Secret Agent and that Number 6 is actually the John Drake character from that series. Another interesting theory I've heard was that the ending with Number 6 being Number 1 after all is supposedly foreshadowed in the opening intro of every episode when #6 asks "Who is #1?" and the #2 ( :clap: he said number 2 hehe) for that episode would always say "You are #6", implying that maybe he meant to say "You are, Number 6."

I think 6 is probably a similar character, but not necessarily Drake. The other theory sounds accurate too, not sure if that was the intent with that intro though, but pretty cool either way. I've seen the episodes on tape, I will have to see them again when I can get that A&E Complete Series set and Danger Man/Secret Agent I haven't seen at all but definitely plan on getting those complete series sets as well.

The Simpsons did two references to The Prisoner. One I think was where Homer was having a dream and being chased by one of those weather balloon looking things. The other was when Homer was Mr. X and when he had to reveal he was Mr. X after winning a Pulitzer, he started making up stories with wild conspiracy theories, one of which turned out to actually be true. Kind of a reference to the movie Conspiracy Theory too. McGoohan even makes an appearance as #6. The ending was funny, where Marge joins him in The Village and says once you get used to the druggings it's really not so bad, with needles sticking out of their ice cream :clap: , ah brilliant show, The Simpsons.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:44 am 
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Anthony wrote:

So thinking any clearer? What did you think of the episode and what was your interpretation?


Sorry I haven't gotten back to you any sooner Anthony............. I have been busy playing poker, and I didn't want to "neglect" a response on this episode.

Suffice to say, I enjoyed it, but there were some aspects I didn't like. There was alot of dislike about this episode, including Patrick McGoohan himself.


I will expand a bit more (yet again) when I am more sober. The next few days I promise.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:17 pm 
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TZ DZ Fan wrote:
I will expand a bit more (yet again) when I am more sober. The next few days I promise.


According to my calendar, it's been almost sixty days, TZ DZ. Have you dried out yet? :wtf: :P


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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:49 am 
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Ok Anthony, I plan on responding a bit more in-depth soon, but I want to rewatch the final episode again before doing so.

I have started watching the series yet again recently, but alas, I have gotten sidetracked a bit with other things in my life.


In brief, I wanted a bit more closure.
I think this episode was filmed in such a way, that McGoohan himself wanted all the viewers to draw their own conclusions.

Tons of "symbolic" things floating around, but it was just a bit too "scattershot" for my liking.

I am more of an "old school" type, and I want definitive endings to my shows.
It doesn't have to necessarily be a "bad" or even a "good" ending, but in cases such as this, I felt a bit cheated.
It was simply too "wide open" on many fronts.

I distinctly remember being dissatisfied with a few other tidbits, but I will have to rewatch it again to jog my memory.


All in all, it was a good show, but judging from the strength of some of the episodes along the way, I had hoped for a better ending.


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 Post subject: Re: FALL OUT
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:54 am 
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We continue from one intense episode to another, only this one is off the wall. I did not get certain questions answered, but I'm all for interpretation. The acting, yet again, was brilliant. Alexis Kanner was hysterical. These last two episodes seemed like a dream state -- a bit weird, strange, sometimes disconnected, but with a meaning behind it all. I'll be honest -- I didn't have any thoughts about who #1 was, so I was surprised and almost startled when I saw him. I'm glad you guys recommended this show. Its mysterious, open-ended nature fits right in with some of my interests when it comes to television and movies. Like I said at some point earlier, viewing this was like watching David Lynch's version of 'Lost'. Right up my alley!

10!

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 Post subject: Re: FALL OUT
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:30 pm 
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A LITTLE WIERD--ONE CLUE IS THAT THE VILLIAGE IS RUN BY HIS OLD SPY AGENCY IS THAT wHEN "6" RUNS FOR OFFICE-HIS ELECTION PICTURE IS THE SAME AS HIS OFFICAL ID SPY PHOTOGRAPH!


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